Grudge Match: 6L6 Vs. EL34
Marc Johnson | May 29, 2010 | Comments 14
Grudge Match: 6L6 Vs. EL34
by Marc Johnson for TheToneKing.com
As I was sitting up at the front counter, perusing through the local entertainment publication, a coworker walked up and interrupted my reading with what quickly turned into a point of animosity between us for several years. Following is the gist of that conversation:
Coworker: “I ordered some of these new power tubes.”
Me: “Good for you.”
Coworker: “Are you listening?”
Me: “I’m really trying not to.”
Coworker: “They cost twice as much as the Sovteks that we usually keep in stock.”
Me: “I’m still trying not to listen.”
Coworker: “Do you know what’s so special about them?”
Me: “If they’ll keep people like you from bothering me, then I’m sold.”
Coworker: “Their 6L6s are made of a harder glass.”
He might as well have stuck a knife in my head.
Me: “I’m sorry. Could you please repeat that?”
Coworker: “They’re made of a harder glass.”
Me: “Are you out of your #$^$% mind?”
What followed was a bloody argument that has since become a mainstay at our shop for the past four years. Does tube type really make that much of a difference in tone?
At this point, many audiophiles will be reaching for their pitchforks and torches. Before things get out of hand, let me explain.
There are so many other factors that are involved in the sound of your guitar, that tube type doesn’t matter as much as most people think. Just imagine the chain of command when it comes to your tone. You pluck the string, which gets pulled into your pickups and pushed out again as a line level signal through a guitar cable into the front of your amp. There are so many factors, no matter how negligible they may be, that have already affected your sound. And we haven’t even reached your precious tubes yet! Everything from what type of pickup you use to how hard you pick is going to affect your tone. Tube type is only a small factor in a whole slew that will eventually make up your sound.
As most of you already know, the general rule of thumb is that 6L6s are a “modern” tone while EL34s are a “British” or “Classic” tone emblematic of old Marshalls. I’m not even sure what that means. I wouldn’t consider a Fender Twin a “modern” sounding amp, but it’s got 6L6s. And, honestly, a Bogner Shiva with EL34s sounds about as “British” to me as a bottle of Budweiser. Let’s face it. Amp manufacturers build their amps to sound a certain way. That’s their main selling point! And no matter what tube they put in there, the sound is really going to come from how the thing is wired.
Many audiophiles will disagree with me, but they’ve trained themselves to notice these subtle differences between these types of tubes. It’s like my ability to distinguish the difference in sound between an Em9 chord and an Emadd9 chord. Sure, I can tell, but I’ve had four years of school to teach me to hear the difference between those two chords. And, at the end of the day, who gives a flying crap what the audiophiles, or me for that matter, can or can’t hear? It’s what the guy who’s playing hears that’s important.
My students are always asking me what type of tubes they should get, EL34s or 6L6s. The answer I give them is always the same: “How in the hell should I know?” I tell them to go ahead and play a bunch of amps, and, whichever one they like the most, buy it. And maybe that’s the crux of it all. If you like how the damn thing sounds, buy it. It’s that simple. If it has 6L6s, great! If it has EL34s, who cares? It’s all about what sounds good to you.
Although, I understand that tube preference can be like a religion for many guitarists, and I guess that’ll make me a heretic for saying all of this, but I cannot say that I hear a profound difference between one tube and the next. Granted, I hear some subtle difference, but I hear more of a difference between new strings and ones that I have had on for a bit too long. I don’t know if the difference in tubes will ever be the be-all end-all of my amp purchases. Truthfully, I’m not even sure what the hell I’m playing through right now!
If you’re still not convinced I know what the heck I’m talking about, check out The Tone King’s blind taste test here:
Click Play to watch below, or visit the link directly on YouTube : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMqJeIukXtE
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Hey “Slim Metal”,
So how y’a figure Marc Johnson sounds like a “fricking prick”? Did I miss something? Please, tell me you guys are best buds and you were just having some fun – or, let us know how it is that he sounds ….as you say?
hi guys – testing
Good article. Yeah there are slight differences in tubes, no one doubts that, but they are almost unnoticeable especially to people in the audience. Sometimes “audiophile” is just another word for “sucker”.
This Marc Johnson sounds like a fricken prick. . . . That being said, I have played different tubes side by side and I have to say that at least to my untrained ears, the difference is nominal at best. EL-34′s to 6L6′s in the same amp is hardly no differense. Could it be the set-up of the amp it’s self. Because all of the electronics themselves (minus the tubes) are identical. How much would that dictate what the sound is like.
Strewth! A bit of sense at last.
I have worked on all kinds of amps for many years and it has always amazed me that a musician will go for the most distorted (especially 3rd harmonic) amp.
I have cleaned up a couple of 6L6 tube amps and been told in no uncertain terms to put it back to the original 20 watts @ 10 % distortion from the 0.2% 35 watts I had improved it too.
Folks with ears like that are in no position to judge amplifier quality!
BTW that is measured THD, I have the equipment to test down to ~0.0006%.
The output tubes are FAR less important than their bias conditions and the overall amp and power supply design.
I have also worked on amps rated 300 W RMS that collapsed @ 50 watts @100 Hz simply because the power supply was badly designed.
I like what you’re trying to do here, and I agree, tube selection (like most guitar tone topics) is a subjective thing. While in my studio on the good monitor speakers I can hear differences in all three tubes, mostly what I hear is the compressed low quality You Tube audio. Not much in the free internet video space you can do about it, but I’d love to hear a minute of each tube in a higher quality audio format.
Thanks for adding to the tone discussion!
This article is written by an idiot. Next!
which tube is which? i cant find it on here
I’ve been playing guitar for 15 years but just picked up my first tube amp a a couple weeks ago, TTK videos helped me pick the Randall RM100. Now I don’t have a lot of experience with tube amps but to me number 2 sounded most like what I would want to get out my guitar. Obviously everyone wants something different but to me I could hear a difference and I liked 2 the best before reading which one that was.
There is a difference in sound between the 6l6 and the el34 in this video, the nos vs the el34….not so much to me. Now a good shootout could be el34 vs kt77
I could hear the difference in the three tubes. My fav was the third tube. Not sure which tube you were playing through on the third. I own two Crate amps, V50 with 6L6′s and a V18-212 with the EL’s. I can tell a difference in the tone between these two amps. IMO, I believe if you have a cheap amp, you will have a “cheap” tone. I like the Create amps but they are not expensive amps. Hope to upgrade to either a Carvin Nomad or Bel Air or a Peavey Delta Blues….therefore better tone than a cheaper amp. Thanks for the videos and the info, they are helpful.
The way I think about tubes is that it’s only slightly different than choosing a pickup ; a guitar; a pedal; or a particular brand, type, or guage of strings. It’s not just about the tone it is also about the preformance of said object. For instance EL-34′s tend to distort faster as you turn up the the master volume. 6550′s tend to distort less slowly and retain a tighter low end, and so on and so forth. As far as I am conserded my choice affects my ability to have my rig preform in the fashion that I want more than anyones listening pleasure. Sure you can create a certain sound out of almost any piece of gear if you play with it enough, but the preformance limitations will be there no matter what you do. Choosing tubes for me is almost like choosing a car. It’s all about preformance expectations and comfort.
TTK,
First, I love the videos keep up the good work!
I think that mostly its subjective to each person. I think that there are just too many variables. What sounds good in your setup, i.e.; rig, fx chain, axe, won’t sound the same as another.
Because I know this, I know that when people say one tube is better sounding than others my B.S. detector goes off!
Mainly I look for reliability first. Tubes don’t seem to be getting any cheaper.
That being said, I liked the way the 1st and 3rd tube demos sounded. The 2nd one was a little muddy and chimey at times. But that doesn’t mean any one was better.
A good example is Adam Jones’ (Tool) guitar sound. The guitar sounds on Tool albums typically sound like a whale. And I’m sure he found his sound by experimenting.
-Lou
At least to me, the difference in tone was VERY noticeable.
I think it just comes down to the personal guitarist, not everybody can hear everything.
Oh, and just to clarify I’m no audiophile, I started playing less than two years ago.